tv The Kudlow Report CNBC December 5, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm EST
fbi. watch the show that helped put him behind bars tonight on cnbc. i think that's sweet justice. i'd like to say there's always a bull market somewhere, i promise to try to find it for you here on "mad money." i'm jim cramer. and i'll see you tomorrow! through his fierce dignity and unbending will to sacrifice his own freedom for the freedom of others, madiba transformed south africa and moved all of us. his journey from a prisoner to a president embodied the promise that human beings and countries can change for the better. >> good evening, everyone. i'm larry kudlow. this is "the kudlow report." we're live here at 7:00 p.m. eastern and 4:00 p.m. pacific. of course, the big news this evening, legendary south african leader nelson mandela has died at the age of 95. we have a team of cnbc reporters
and experts joining us this evening. my pal and colleague tyler matheson, hampton pierceson, john harwood are with us but i want to begin with chris bishop, live outside mandela's home. you see the scene. people gathering to celebrate his life. chris, can you describe what's going on and what is the feeling, what is the basic sense there? >> reporter: well, what's happening at the moment, the police have actually, there are so many people around, the police have closed off the roads around nelson mandela's home in johannesburg where he passed away this evening. but there are people there, there are people with flags, people are crying, people are coming to sing and a bit further away at nelson mandela's former home in soweto, where he lived when he was a young lawyer in the 1950s and early 1960s, when he went on the ground, there were people gathering there, singing songs, celebrating his
life. some people are crying and some people are consoling each other. it really is a celebration of a life that's going to carry on for many, many weeks in this country. >> i believe the plan is for roughly nine days of mourning and celebration of mandela's life and on the tenth day, there will be i gather a state funeral where world leaders will attend, presumably including the president and many leaders who both worked with him and were inspired by him. so this will be at least over the next ten days or so, as chris points out, an intense celebration of his life and of his memory. >> chris, who is taking the calls from world leaders right now today, as best you can determine? >> reporter: well, it's essentially the whole world is going to come. we have known this for some time. the government has been preparing, making arrangements for this funeral which will be held, incidentally, in the village where nelson mandela
grew up in the rural eastern cape area of south africa. it will be held in his home village there. every leader on the planet is expected to come and pay their respects to a man who inspired i would say almost all of them. >> chris bishop, thanks very much from south africa. we appreciate it. now, who are we going to next? going to john harwood. all right. we welcome our own john harwood. john, what can you tell us about the president's reaction and related matters? >> well, first of all, on the point that chris bishop was just discussing with you a moment ago, i talked to four former aides to president obama. the white house isn't confirming this but all four of them said they expect that president obama will, in fact, attend that ceremony along with other world leaders. we saw president obama come into the briefing room as in the clip that you played tonight where he referred to nelson mandela as an inspiration, an example for him
from the earliest phase of his political stirrings as a student at occidental college where he attended an anti-apartheid protest there. of course, nelson mandela is someone who was the first african-american or excuse me, the first african leader, black african leader of south africa which had been governed by a white government, president obama followed in that footstep as the first african-american president of the united states, and he said that he would spend the rest of his life trying to live up to and follow nelson mandela's example. what was so notable about nelson mandela was that he actually achieved in practice the promise that president obama had held out in 2004 at that famous convention speech of bringing south africa together, adopting a policy of reconciliation at a time when there was such tremendous bitterness built up over decades and decades of
conflict. it was a titanic achievement for a leader, for a statesman, and that's why so many people looked up to nelson mandela. >> you know, as you pointed out earlier today, one of the remarkable things in his epic life is when he came to power, he was a man without spite or -- though he certainly must have had some anger, he did not act upon that anger. he was a conciliator. he brought people from the former apartheid government into his own circle of advisors and in some cases, opponents into the government there. he was, to my thinking, both his nation's george washington and its abraham lincoln. >> there's no question. you know, the power of the state and the way the state used its power for so long in south africa was so oppressive and it stirred such anger and bitterness and hatred that it is
a miracle, really, that you had a leader who was able not to act on that, who was able to bring his former jailors for a period of 27 years to his inauguration ceremony as the first black president. i want to show you something, guys. this is a pass that i had to receive as a white journalist in the early 1980s to go into soweto. the essence of apartheid was control and racial control, and so when black south africans would go into white areas, they had to carry a pass with them at all times. so did whites going into black areas, and as a reporter, i had to go to a government office, fill out this form, be granted a pass in order to legally go into soweto, the place where we have been seeing the pictures of people gathered outside nelson mandela's home. those days are long gone and that's part of nelson mandela's legacy, that he was able to lead the country to put those things in the past. >> john, just one of the other things that is amazing, mandela
was, as we have all been discussing, okay, in the spirit of reconciliation, i would add the word forgiveness, which is a remarkable i think spiritual value that he had as well as political strategy, but john, he governed essentially with de klerk. many said it couldn't be done and they wound up sharing a nobel prize and managed to keep, as one person put it, a middle ground between white fears and black hopes. can you talk a little bit, and i will ask this question all night, his relationship with de klerk and how he was able to govern in a broader coalition. >> it was interest, he engaged in negotiations before f.w. de klerk took office and then with de klerk about the terms of hoihis own release. everyone knew where this was
headed but not how it was going to work out. when they finally reached an accommodation, nelson mandela was released in 1990, he finally stood for election, took power in 1994, and his deputy president was f.w. de klerk. they did share the nobel prize as you mentioned and the hallmark of his tenure, he established a board of inquiry to look into past atrocities that had been done. what was it called? the truth and reconciliation commission. that's what it was all about. south africa had the economy, has the economy that is the greatest economic engine on the african continent and nelson n mandela did not dismantle that economy, he did not force the kind of redistribution of wealth at a pace in which his supporters wanted it to happen, he said now it's time for us to build, not to function as a revolution anymore. >> thanks, john harwood. we appreciate it. now, we are joined on the phone by robert johnson, who is a cnbc
contributor, founder of the rlj and former chairman of b.e.t., old friend of mine. robert, you met nelson mandela many times, okay. how many times did you meet him, what are your thoughts tonight as he passes away? >> yeah, i had the great and humbling pleasure of meeting president mandela on a number of occasions, first with the former commerce secretary, late ron brown, and then i also accompanied president clinton on his historic trip to sub-saharan africa and of course when president mandela came to the united states seeking to raise funds to continue to fight apartheid and support his charities. the one thing, larry, that strikes me about president mandela is i have never known a man so comfortable in his convictions that he could invite his jailor to his inauguration, giving him a seat of
recognition, and at the same time, recognize that the real true power of south african unity was going to be the acceptance by black and white south africans that this country had to come together peacefully and to put aside all the hatred, the bitterness of apartheid and the feeling by many black americans that everything that whites own should be turned over to black south africans. it was a task worthy of what i would call the greatest person this world has ever known to be able to show that forgiveness, that courage of conviction, and he kept that same conviction when he would come to the united states and scold american leaders and individuals who wanted him to not associate with remember gadhafi had given money
to fight apartheid when the united states was holding back, castro gave money. all the people that people in the united states called dictators but president mandela was firm that those who helped him, who shared his belief in ending apartheid, he would not turn their backs on. >> but he was, robert, if i can add, looking at his history, he was a firm anti-communist and he never lost that. there were parts of his coalition, the anc, that were pro-communist. correct me if i'm wrong, but mandela always down through the years, when he got his freedom, when he took office and afterwards, was a firm anti-communist. >> well, he was -- i don't know fully whether he was a firm anti-communist in the sense of what you call soviet communism, but he was firm in that he did not want to give the impression that he was going to turn black nationalism into black racial discrimination against whites.
>> i think that really is the point, mr. johnson. he was first and foremost an african nationalist. there were communists who wanted to coopt, if you will, the movement there and he once famously went onstage at a rally of i believe the african national congress and tore up the posters of the communists who had tried to sort of commandeer the movement over there. larry, a moment ago used the word forgiveness. there was a divineness about this man's spirit, wasn't there? >> i think you would have to say if anybody would ever dare say that someone carried a christ-like mantle in their life, you would have to say that about president mandela. he clearly understood that, you know, as i think one of the authors of "cry the beloved country" wrote about south africa where she said i hope when the whites turn to loving,
the blacks have not turned to hating. and that i think was president mandela's, what i call his humanitarian genius. he knew that there was hatred out there. he had seen it. he just would not under any circumstances give credit to that hatred so it would inflame south africa into probably what would be the worst racial conflagration that the world had ever seen. >> all right. we'll leave it there. robert johnson, thank you very much. appreciate your input. now we will turn to hampton pearson, who is going to continue our news coverage. hampton, are you out there? there you are. good. >> oh, yeah. larry, first of all, just to piggyback on a lot of what you all have been talking about, because nelson mandela had such a strong international profile as a human rights leader, his economic legacy basically rebuilding the post-apartheid economy often gets overlooked.
look at south africa today, the 25th largest global economy, gdp under mandela picked up from less than 1.5% between 1980 and '94 to slightly 3%, '95 to 2003, basically doubling. average personal income for white south africans increased by 62% between '93 and 2008, and that's according to capetown university economist mary liebrant. unemployment is still high, 25%, stubbornly high, but look at the alternative and the path that mandela chose. remember, south africa frankly was extremely lucky that it didn't follow the path of its neighbor to the north, zimbabwe, and its president. under mandela's guidance, there were no land reforms that took property from white farmers and awarded it to cronies undermining production and growth on the way. mandela instead presiding over the nonviolent absorption of the black majority population into
an economy which they had previously been totally excluded, with incomes, access to services and civil rights all dramatically improving as well. now, i did not have as many encounters with nelson mandela as our good friend bob johnson did, but one of the most memorable days of my life, it was bill clinton's inaugural, the morning of. i was on the capitol grounds. i happened to be walking around at the time and i literally bumped into nelson mandela. he was being escorted by ron brown, and i have to tell you, he is and was one of those people, he had an aura. when you were in his presence, you felt differently, your life changed and it's a memory that i have personally cherished for the better part of some 20 years. we have lost one of the great humanitarians of any age. >> all right. thank you very much. thanks for telling us that great story. now, folks, to repeat the big
news tonight, nelson mandela has died today at the age of 95. many thanks to hampton pearson and tyler matheson and john harwood. we will be right back with much more of "the kudlow report." (announcer) scottrade knows our clients trade and invest their own way. with scottrade's smart text, i can quickly understand my charts, and spend more time trading. their quick trade bar lets my account follow me online so i can react in real-time. plus, my local scottrade office is there to help. because they know i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me. i'm with scottrade. (announcer) ranked highest in investor satisfaction with self-directed services by j.d. power and associates.
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all right. across the country today, union members led protests outside fast food restaurants. the seiu union backed these protests, so the question is, whether this is really a political issue and not so much an economic issue about the minimum wage. is the seiu merely attempting to boost its membership rolls, get more dues in order to spend money on its favorite liberal left political causes. let's talk. we have democratic strategist, former clinton advisor carrie wofford and welcome rick berman from the center for union facts. carrie, i know you're going to tell me i'm being too hard on the seiu, although the clinton administration was not really much of a pro-labor administration, if you ask me, to their credit. but i think, i think they have their ulterior motives. what's your take? >> they may have an ulterior
motive but i think you're on to the wrong one. i think the motive is to build momentum for the federal minimum wage to increase in congress, so they see connecticut, new jersey, over 61% of the voters just voted recently for a minimum wage increase. california, new york, you see all these states, d.c., raising the minimum wage. they see gallup putting out a poll that three-quarters of americans want a minimum wage increase, and they see the momentum and they want to get a federal bill. that would be my sense. >> rick berman, i want to know if you agree with what carrie is saying. do you regard this as a true strike, in other words, were these workers from the fast food restaurants or were these simply union members maybe in some cases bussed in? >> they were definitely bussed in. these are people who are paid to protest. there are very few people who walk out and are joining these picket lines. it's not a strike. strikes are when employees walk out. these are people who are showing up carrying picket signs. and i agree, this is really just an attempt to gain some sort of political appeal for a minimum
wage increase which they could just as easily get by taking out full page ads in newspapers and at the end of the day, it may be true that polling shows that people are in favor of a minimum wage increase until you tell them that people will lose their jobs if they're low-skilled or that technology is going to start replacing some of these jobs, and then you get a much different reaction from the public. you get support down in the 30% range and quite frankly, now because technology has raced ahead from where it was in the '80s and the '90s, there are jobs that are about to be replaced in fast food restaurants that are about to disappear. >> that's the risk. you may not agree with it but you've got to acknowledge that's the risk. we have a lot of small business people and franchisees on this network and they say if you raise the minimum wage for the low end workers, that's going to cut into our profits, either we raise prices of the meals we're serving or we have to lay them off.
>> well, most economists think it will not have an effect on hiring so there was a big study that looked at a 15-year time span comparing counties that had raised the minimum wage and counties that hadn't and there was no effect. the chicago fed recently put out a paper saying that it would have a stimulative effect because it would put more dollars in the pockets of people who spend every dime and guess who's eating at mcdonald's? it's low wage workers. so mcdonald's is going to do better, not worse. that's why the ceo of costco actually pays his workers fairly well, better than minimum wage, and he says it lowers turnover, it increases productivity, increases loyalty. >> that's great. look, i'm not suggesting that everyone should have the minimum wage. that's not the point i'm making. i do think all these studies are all over the place, all mixed. we can all say. >> but the thing is, i think americans fundamentally believe -- >> larry, these studies are not all over the place. 85% of the best studies which have been analyzed by the
university of california economists and economists from the federal reserve, 85% of the best studies over the last several years have said that it does cause job loss and the studies carrie says, she talks about the university of chicago study. that had to do with buying cars. it had nothing to do -- >> no, that was chicago fed. not the university of chicago. the chicago fed. the bank. >> at the end of the day, under the carter administration, they did the biggest study that any other group of economists had ever undertaken. seven volumes of studies on the minimum wage. and the economics haven't changed. >> this is not true. i'm sorry, but this is not true. >> it is true. >> americans fundamentally believe that if you work full-time, you should not be in poverty. >> the problem is pricing. the problem is pricing. >> you and i as taxpayers -- can i finish? larry -- >> if you ever run a business, pricing has everything to do with it. >> rick, come on. >> go ahead, carrie. >> larry, you and i as taxpayers, we are subsidizing
this. these full-time minimum wage workers are getting 15 grand a year. they're in subsidized housing, feeding their kids off food stamps. we're subsidizing it. from my point of view, it's better if costco pays its workers enough they don't need public housing, they don't need -- >> i agree with you. >> don't talk to me about costco. >> i hi the trick here is to get the job, okay, and then work your way up the ladder, to learn to get the discipline, get the skills. that's what we want. i would rather see, to tell you the truth, i hate the minimum wage. i would rather see wage subsidies, direct government wage subsidies or some kind of negative income tax which is totally transparent but unfortunately, we do not have the time this evening to pursue all these options. pardon my skepticism about the seiu, however. i'm still going to stay with that. now, if you tune in to nbc's "meet the press" this sunday, i will be talking about this with host david gregory. "meet the press" airs at 9:00 a.m. eastern time.
many of the nbc stations. please check your local listings. all right. many thanks to carrie wof ford and rick berman. appreciate your points of view. the clock is really ticking on obama care. we know millions of americans have already lost their insurance effective january 1st because of obama care. for those people and anyone else who wants to sign up for new policies and be covered on new year's day, the deadline is actually december 23rd. that's not far away. doesn't say much about the sticker shock of the premiums, even speaker john boehner experiencing that today. take a listen. >> my health insurance premiums are going to double. my co-pays and deductibles triple under obama care. i'm thrilled to death, as you can tell. >> next up, we talk about this fast approaching deadline, sticker shock and the threat to millions of seniors who may also lose their doctors. get ready, folks. we're just minutes away from the first ever "the kudlow report" youth summit.
for real college kids, how about that, four real college kids are going to join me live on set to talk about what they think of president obama and obama care and whether they are going to sign up or not. you don't want to miss it. free market capitalism is the best path to prosperity. i will ask these college kids. what do they think about free market capitalism? we'll be right back.
poised to gain coverage on january 1st. some for the very first time. >> all right. welcome back to "the kudlow report." that, of course, president obama on his obama care marketing blitz, leading up to the fast approaching december 23rd sign-up deadline. now that's a mere 18 days away. now, here's the fact. enrollment needs to double by december 23rd, just to hit obama's half million mark. and another fact, to date, it is estimated that some four to five million americans have had their current health care policies canceled. a lot more folks will have lost health insurance than have gained it under obama care. that looks like the forecast. anyway, let's talk. we have democratic strategist steve mcmahon and emily miller, "washington times" opinion page senior editor. emily, go to you first. welcome. thank you for coming on the show. by the time we get to that week, december 23rd to january 1st, are there going to be more
uninsured than insured? is the table going to be turned against obama care? >> absolutely, larry. this house of cards that is obama care is falling down already. the problem is the whole thing was based on the scheme that they were going to get young people who are healthy to sign up so you have a balanced insurance risk pool, and then those people by paying into the system would take care of the uninsured who are older and unhealthy. well, this whole thing is falling apart because the young people are not signing up in droves. in fact, a harvard poll yesterday showed half of them are against obama care and only 20% of the uninsured who are uninsured and young say they are going to sign up for it. >> we are going to cover that. you're right. you're dead right. we have a bunch of college folks who are going to talk about that. but let me go, steve mcmahon, let me go to you. >> i thought we were going to be on the college panel, larry. this is the grown-up panel? >> next time. this is the adult panel. anyway, here's the thing. there's politics here and there's health care economics, steve.
i don't understand how you are ever going to get the balance, four to five million cancellations. the website is not finished. many people, most people, can't make the payment for full enrollment and that means they're not going to be counted as people who are insured. how do you get around that? >> well, larry, listen, we have talked about this before. there's no question that the rollout has been a mess. there is also no question that the website's only been working properly for about two or three days, and there are a number of people who have gone on and had a good result. the five million people who are supposedly canceled were all offered other policies so we don't actually know how many of those people have insurance or lost insurance. we do know and you're right that it's going to require young people getting involved and getting signed up in order for the risk pools to work, and in those states where they actually are running it as a state exchange, the experience with the young people coming in has actually been not quite as good as people were hoping for, but not nearly as bad as the republicans and the "washington
times" and others are projecting. l let's give this a little time to work. the medicare prescription drug benefit wasn't very popular at the beginning and then people had some experience with it and now you couldn't pry it out of their hands. >> speaking of -- >> go ahead, please. >> larry, i know you are going to say, too, speaking of medicare, so obama raided $700 billion out of the medicare system which is already going bankrupt, as you know, in order to pay for obama care so all the elderly people are finding out it's coming out of medicare advantage. they are finding out they are getting kicked off their medicare advantage plans so they can't keep their doctors. we had two promises this president made in 2009 and 2010 when he knew it wasn't true. you can keep the plan if you like your insurance plan, you can keep it, if you like your doctor, you can keep it. none of those is true and it's not just for the unemployed. it's for the elderly, for the people on employer plans, it's for everyone. this whole house of cards is affecting all americans and that's why you see obama's poll numbers plummeting. >> i hate to sound like a republican economist but just
let me for a second. the $700 billion that the republicans talk about being cut from medicare actually is $700 billion that won't be spent on medicare because the providers reimbursement has been diminished over a period of time. the republicans talk a lot about how they want to rein in health care costs because after all, that's the real problem here, and what the president did was what paul ryan's budget actually called for. now the republicans are critical for it. >> right. just to end this thing, look -- >> you're with me on this, right, larry? >> i think your hypothesis is right. i don't think at the end of the day they are going to take the $700 billion out of medicare. that's number one. number two, to emily's point, a lot of that is coming out of medicare advantage, which is popular. so i think this is part of the financing mystery of how obama care is going to wind up being paid for. now, we don't have time -- >> it's going to wind up being paid for by the taxpayers. >> they may have to come back
for more. that's another segment. i appreciate both of you making those points. steve mcmahan, emily miller, thank you. this is the moment you have all been waiting for. it's the first ever "kudlow report" youth summit. holy cow. four young college students, four, count them, are about to join me on the set live. they will talk about why young people are turning on obama care and the president, or are they turning against obama care and the president, or are we wrong? are they actually going to favor it? we'll have to ask them. please stay with us. here they come.
welcome back live. this is "the kudlow report." all right. here they are. i've gathered the youth summit of our own. here, two college democrats from columbia university, jordana and ankit and two college republicans, sophie miller from boston university and charlie kirk from harper college in chicago. charlie is also founder and executive director of turning point usa. okay. we will do the best we can here. charlie, let me begin with you. are the polls right, in your opinion, people you talk to, the polls -- people turning against obama care and obama himself, just really quickly, is that right and why? why do you think that's happening? >> it's definitely correct.
i talked to a lot of college students, including myself, and i talk to people and they are really upset with washington. they voted for president obama overwhelmingly in '08 and 2012. it's really interesting, for the first time in the last 50 years we are seeing young people view the negative effects of their own vote almost immediately. they are paying higher premiums, they can't find a job and they are tired of hearing the rhetoric of the president when they're seeing the harsh reality of the policies. >> we may not get through this tonight. you are all great to be here, but let me go to sophie on this point. people are depending on young people to finance obama care. that's basically how this works. they are going -- they are the healthy young and they are going to pay for the elderly and the sick. do you think that's going to happen? will the healthy young so-called do their quote, share and actually sign up or not? >> at this point really unfortunately it's not looking like that's going to be the case. in fact, obama care is really hurting young people, young millenials like myself.
at bowie state university in maryland, their health care costs went from $54 a semester, just about $100 a year, to $1800. that is not sustainable and it's just not acceptable. >> how big a problem is this going to be? i'm not really talking politics here. i'm saying that the way this thing is structured, as you probably know, if you have looked at it, they really are expecting, i don't know, almost 40% of the financing to come from young people. will it? does that work? does it work for you? >> you know, that really depends on really making strides from congress as well as president obama to make sure that college graduates are able to enter the job market as efficiently as they should be. obviously, this is becoming gridlock because the job market has not been looking great for recent hires and recent graduates. if the job market increases and serves better graduates -- serves graduates better, that way, young people as it stands will be able to finance obama care. >> jordana, what about that? there may be a trade-off between student debt which is a big
problem. i mean, the aggregate is $1 trillion. it's not easy. and health care. do you think you're bullet-proof and don't need to see doctors? some studies say you only see a doctor six times from the age of 18 to 34. which is more important, the premium for health -- obama care or paying your debt? >> well, i'd say that may not be the best way to look at it right now. when people talk about obama care they forget about all the positives. the fact that right now for me in college i'm not paying any higher premium. i'm allowed to stay on my parents' health insurance until i'm 26 because of obama care. when i end up finding my own plan which i do plan on doing once i turn 26, i will not be denied for any pre-existing conditions, i'm not going to be denied because i'm a woman, i won't pay any higher charges. i think those are very important things to focus on but back to your point about student loan debt, i don't necessarily see it as a trade-off that way because i know a lot of people will not be able to be covered because of their parents because they're able to stay with them until they're 26 but with student loan, that's something that's tackled in a separate way but
putting the two together -- >> i don't know, charlie, it's just expenses. you all have expenses, i got expenses, and i'm just trying to figure out how this is going to work out. look, what do numbers show from this harvard poll, it's that young people are going to stay away in the main. they're not even remotely close to the 40% level. what i want to ask you is i want to get your all opinion on this. why these numbers show the president's popularity plunging so much. in other words, young people were big supporters, fine, okay, you voted for him, you got him. why is it, is it obama care, is it the president, is it falsehoods? i just want to get your sense of it. >> starting back in june, it's very interesting starting with the nsa, especially the nsa and cell phones with our generation, that's a big hot button issue. we are on social media all the time. that was the beginning back in june. over the summer we were expecting our generation, a good job market, trying to get summer internships and jobs. unfortunately, due to obama care, a lot of employers weren't
hiring. hours got reduced to 29 hour work weeks. i had friends who weren't allowed to work more than 30 hours a week. slowly but surely starting october 31st, then our generation has to pay higher premiums. it was a perfect storm. our generation said i've had enough. >> sophie, is it the president himself, the way he's presented himself on this and other issues, or is it obama care itself? which is it? or maybe it's both. i don't know. >> i think obama care is really playing into a number of failed policies of this president. and like charlie mentioned, the nsa scandal has really been a huge issue. i know the government really wants to read my text messages of my grandmother but -- >> you don't blame him. not even i blame president obama for the nsa probe. >> i think we definitely could. >> you could. >> yeah. >> that's very interesting. >> he said he would be a reformer and get away -- >> this is a little off the beaten track but pick that up. do you blame the president for the nsa eavesdropping, for a better word? >> i can admit that there has been a stagnation in youth
support for president obama recently. i don't want to attribute it totally to obama care. i will say this a lot of dissatisfaction with president obama this year in particular, 2013, has been a lot because of there has been a lot of transparency issues with the obama administration with a lot of criticism on drone striking and a lot of criticism on his nsa policies as shown in the snowden scandal this last summer. you know, it is in the interest of a state to be able to protect its citizens from internal threats, and in that sense, a lot of things that president obama had to do with the nsa were justified. however, there were very, very far-reaching implications. >> actually, i agree with you on that, although it's tricky business. >> it's tricky business. >> to know where to draw the line. obama or obama care, or nsa, i'll give you options here, because you will admit the polls are plunging and sort of breath-taking to watch this happen. >> okay. i think we need to rewind a bit and just view what the youth, my
generation, millenial generation, still holds true to their hearts. we still agree with president obama on the issues important to our generation. we still agree with him on issues like gay marriage. we still agree with him on issues like a woman's right to choose. and there are certain core values that i think that the youth still do line up with the democratic party as a whole more than they do with the republican party. i also think -- >> did democrats sell you out on obama care? going to be more expensive than you wanted? i know you're living with your parents but say a lot of people don't live with their parents. did the democrats sell you out? do you feel the democrats have properly represented you? >> i do. and i would just further ask when we're talking -- i was talking to my friend about this, we were looking at the polls together, the harvard poll you were quoting, and i just said where is an opinion poll in the republican option. there was never any type of republican option for health care. >> yes, there has been. >> that's key. >> they've put forth many plans in the house. >> nothing of equivalent.
>> health insurance cost, tort reform, medicare and medicaid fraud. that's a democrat myth. plenty of republican plans have been put forth. >> we got to jump back. i agree but it's very hard because you don't speak with one voice whereas the president can speak with one voice. i have said this. we had senator kay bailey hutchison on last night. former senator. republican party has to convince young people and everybody else that they care for the sick. and that if something goes wrong, they will take care. the pre-conditions of illness i think is a big, big issue and the gop's got to prove they will take care of them. it's not the only issue but that's one of them. anyway, great stuff. maybe you will all come back, we'll have some more time. thanks very much. folks out there, we'll be back in just a moment. more on the passing of nelson mandela.
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freedom in post-apartheid south africa." mr. foster, thank you for coming on, sir. president mandela has been out of politics for a long time. he's been certainly out of the government for a long time. >> that's right. since 1999. >> right. jacob zuma is the president right now. when you speak of after mandela, we have been in the after mandela period, or are you referring to something else? >> well, in a sense we have been in an after mandela period but as long as the old man as he's known in south africa was alive, there was a sense in which he exercised a kind of moral persuasion in the country so i think now, today, with the death of nelson mandela at the age of 95, we begin to enter a period where people really deal with the psychological, cultural and political consequences of the grandfather of the nation passing on. >> will there be new divisions? i'm not thinking about culture, i just don't know enough biabou
it but i wonder about politics, business and the economy. south africa as you know, sir, has a very, very high unemployment rate, 25% overall. 80% unemployment for young people. will there be divisions on this? how do you foresee this? >> i think that, you know, the vision that mandela articulated 20 years ago for a nonracial, nonsexist, nonhomophobic and more egalitarian society, it's that last piece of it that proved to be harder than he or any of the people who came into government with him expected. inequality has widened as it did around the world and that has been a huge challenge. i think as we head into the presidential election of 2014, the election in april, that will be the key issue at work as
people position for the presidential election. >> normally, just last one, when inequality becomes the major issue, the government plays a larger role, the free market, a smaller role. do you expect that to be the direction of south africa? >> that's the debate. you come out of a situation of apartheid which was nearly half a century of a very extreme and peculiar form of racial segregation where race and class were so tightly intertwined, and of course, there was a role as there had been under the apartheid government for the state to redirect things. there's a very active debate about what form that intervention should take and how massive it should be. >> right. all right. perhaps you'll come back on and give us an update as things shake out. mr. doug foster, thank you very, very much. folks, we'll be back with more of "the kudlow report." maybe have a look at tomorrow's economy and jobs numbers as well. please stay with us. r ] thanks for financing my first car.
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wall street closely watching tomorrow as jobs report, is there going to be upside surprise, might that spark a shift in fed policy? let's ask ed lazeer, presidents george w. bush's economic advisor, now professor at stanford university. welcome back. gdp report today surprisingly strong, up 3.6% at an annual rate for the third quarter. however, there is always a
however on this, much of it was unexpected boost to inventories, non-farm inventories, up almost $60 billion. people say that's not sustainable and therefore, the 3.6% is not sustainable. where do you come out on that? >> i think that's actually not right. i think the 3.6% may not be sustainable but it has very little to do with inventories. in fact, what you find is if you look at changes in inventories in one quarter, they tend to predict in a positive direction, not a negative direction what's going to happen in the next quarter. in other words, you have a good quarter for inventories, you're more likely to have a good quarter next quarter, not a bad quarter. the reason for that is that the inventories are essentially forecasting where the economy's going in the future. if the economy is heating up, manufacturers need to produce goods so that they have them on board when the economy is heated up and when consumers are there to buy them. so that's -- go ahead. >> this is an important point you're making. you're giving me a
nonconventional point. many of the wall street economists are arguing that the inventories will be sold off in the fourth quarter or the accumulation rate is going to slow down, and that's going to knock gdp down to whatever, 2%. you're saying maybe not, and i'm going to extrapolate from your maybe not that maybe the jobs picture is equally surprising on the upside. >> well, it could be. you know, i would think that what we would be looking at for jobs is, you know, something along the same lines that we've had in the past. but remember the last three months have been better than they were previously. so if you look at it, you say well, we're adding 200,000 jobs, what does that tell you? well, it tells you that on net we're getting about 80,000 jobs a month. what i mean by on net is that population growth alone accounts for about 120,000 jobs. so in order to just keep pace, you need 120,000. if you're getting 200,000, you're netting 80, in order to get back to normal conditions,
you're talking about seven more years at that pace. so you know, you need a lot of job growth in order to get us back to a normal economy. >> i'm going to apologize to you because of the nelson mandela unexpected death, we're running short. you made a good point. the economy may be stronger. this inventory thing may not be so bad. that's it for "the kudlow report." i'll be on "meet the press" sunday morning. ♪
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>> narrator: in this episode of "american greed: the fugitives" -- money manager spiro germenis has charm galore. >> he was very intelligent, very good-looking. >> narrator: but now he's gone. >> he was just the type of guy that -- i don't know. we all seemed to like him a lot. >> narrator: germenis' investment fund, oracle evolution, appears to work miracles, with market-beating returns. >> i was telling my friends about it. i said, "look at this. look at what this guy's doing. my god." >> narrator: what this guy is doing, the fbi says, is ripping off his investors. many of them are retirees, and he spares no one.